[RESEARCH] ASCII roguelike / MUD candidates for Timmy gameplay loop #33

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Timmy · 2026-03-28T15:38:18Z

Timmy commented

2026-03-28 15:38:18 +00:00

Source: Morrowind retrospective after local Hermes+MCP testing (20260328_112112_972782).

Goal:
Step back from 3D Morrowind and identify better old-school open-source text / ASCII worlds for Timmy to inhabit and play through the Hermes harness.

Why:

Morrowind is technically drivable but not engaging enough at this model level.
Real-time 3D is expensive per action and semantically thin.
Turn-based ASCII games and telnet-native MUDs should give cleaner state, clearer action choices, and better telemetry/training artifacts.

Shortlist to evaluate:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup

official: https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/
repo: https://github.com/crawl/crawl
strong candidate for rich turn-based roguelike play with clean keyboard actions

Angband

docs: https://angband.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
repo: https://github.com/angband/angband
very strong candidate for classic terminal-native dungeon loop and simpler action surface

NetHack

official: https://www.nethack.org/
canonical old-school baseline; worth evaluating for symbolic depth and agent readability

Brogue Community Edition

repo: https://github.com/tmewett/BrogueCE
minimalist ASCII presentation; likely high readability for local models

Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead

official: https://cataclysmdda.org/
repo: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA
rich simulation, but may be too broad/noisy for the first prototype

Evennia

official: https://www.evennia.com/
repo: https://github.com/evennia/evennia
not a prebuilt game but a Python MUD framework; strong candidate if the right answer is a sovereign persistent text world rather than a legacy roguelike

tbaMUD

official: https://www.tbamud.com/
classic MUD option; worth comparing against Evennia for protocol simplicity and setup cost

CoffeeMud

official: http://coffeemud.net/
another classic open MUD stack to compare if we want a living text world instead of a dungeon crawler

Initial recommendation:

Best immediate roguelike prototype: Angband or Brogue CE
Best rich turn-based benchmark: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup
Best persistent-world direction: Evennia

Acceptance:

choose the top 3 candidates for actual local prototyping
define evaluation criteria: install friction, terminal/telnet I/O clarity, turn structure, save/replay/log support, MCP/automation friendliness, and training-data quality
recommend one "play now" target and one "build a sovereign text world" target
document what adapter surface Timmy should use for the winner (stdin/stdout, curses scrape, telnet socket, or direct engine hooks)
keep the final choice local-first and compatible with Hermes-in-the-loop telemetry

Source: Morrowind retrospective after local Hermes+MCP testing (`20260328_112112_972782`). Goal: Step back from 3D Morrowind and identify better old-school open-source text / ASCII worlds for Timmy to inhabit and play through the Hermes harness. Why: - Morrowind is technically drivable but not engaging enough at this model level. - Real-time 3D is expensive per action and semantically thin. - Turn-based ASCII games and telnet-native MUDs should give cleaner state, clearer action choices, and better telemetry/training artifacts. Shortlist to evaluate: 1. Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup - official: https://crawl.develz.org/wordpress/ - repo: https://github.com/crawl/crawl - strong candidate for rich turn-based roguelike play with clean keyboard actions 2. Angband - docs: https://angband.readthedocs.io/en/latest/ - repo: https://github.com/angband/angband - very strong candidate for classic terminal-native dungeon loop and simpler action surface 3. NetHack - official: https://www.nethack.org/ - canonical old-school baseline; worth evaluating for symbolic depth and agent readability 4. Brogue Community Edition - repo: https://github.com/tmewett/BrogueCE - minimalist ASCII presentation; likely high readability for local models 5. Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - official: https://cataclysmdda.org/ - repo: https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA - rich simulation, but may be too broad/noisy for the first prototype 6. Evennia - official: https://www.evennia.com/ - repo: https://github.com/evennia/evennia - not a prebuilt game but a Python MUD framework; strong candidate if the right answer is a sovereign persistent text world rather than a legacy roguelike 7. tbaMUD - official: https://www.tbamud.com/ - classic MUD option; worth comparing against Evennia for protocol simplicity and setup cost 8. CoffeeMud - official: http://coffeemud.net/ - another classic open MUD stack to compare if we want a living text world instead of a dungeon crawler Initial recommendation: - Best immediate roguelike prototype: Angband or Brogue CE - Best rich turn-based benchmark: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup - Best persistent-world direction: Evennia Acceptance: - choose the top 3 candidates for actual local prototyping - define evaluation criteria: install friction, terminal/telnet I/O clarity, turn structure, save/replay/log support, MCP/automation friendliness, and training-data quality - recommend one "play now" target and one "build a sovereign text world" target - document what adapter surface Timmy should use for the winner (stdin/stdout, curses scrape, telnet socket, or direct engine hooks) - keep the final choice local-first and compatible with Hermes-in-the-loop telemetry

Timmy self-assigned this 2026-03-28 15:38:19 +00:00

Timmy commented

2026-03-28 16:17:56 +00:00

Fast spike result:

Current recommendation split:

Research-grade solved environment

NLE (NetHack Learning Environment)
MiniHack

Sovereign persistent-world path

Evennia

Key findings:

NLE repo: archived by Facebook, but still the canonical NetHack RL environment and the most solved action/observation substrate for classic terminal dungeon play.
MiniHack repo: also archived, but still useful as a task sandbox layered on NLE.
TextWorld/Jericho remain relevant for text-game research, but they are less aligned with the specific roguelike nostalgia target.
Evennia is ACTIVE, not archived, and recently updated. It is a Python-native MUD/MU* framework rather than a fixed game.

Practical read:

If the goal is “use an already-solved research/game environment right now”, NLE/MiniHack is the better immediate spike.
If the goal is “give Timmy a persistent local world / mind palace with real places, persistent objects, and low-context-cost continuity”, Evennia is the more strategically important path.

Interpretation of Evennia for Timmy:

yes, it is basically a Python world you build and inhabit
rooms, objects, commands, NPCs, scripts, state, and persistence live in the world itself
Timmy would not need to keep the whole world in prompt context; the world can hold that memory structurally
this makes Evennia a strong candidate for a sovereign local “mind palace” / workshop / city / dungeon that Timmy can return to over time

Suggested next move:

run a narrow NLE/MiniHack spike for the “solved agent benchmark” lane
separately open an Evennia world-design / prototype issue for the “persistent Timmy place” lane

Fast spike result: Current recommendation split: 1. Research-grade solved environment - NLE (NetHack Learning Environment) - MiniHack 2. Sovereign persistent-world path - Evennia Key findings: - NLE repo: archived by Facebook, but still the canonical NetHack RL environment and the most solved action/observation substrate for classic terminal dungeon play. - MiniHack repo: also archived, but still useful as a task sandbox layered on NLE. - TextWorld/Jericho remain relevant for text-game research, but they are less aligned with the specific roguelike nostalgia target. - Evennia is ACTIVE, not archived, and recently updated. It is a Python-native MUD/MU* framework rather than a fixed game. Practical read: - If the goal is “use an already-solved research/game environment right now”, NLE/MiniHack is the better immediate spike. - If the goal is “give Timmy a persistent local world / mind palace with real places, persistent objects, and low-context-cost continuity”, Evennia is the more strategically important path. Interpretation of Evennia for Timmy: - yes, it is basically a Python world you build and inhabit - rooms, objects, commands, NPCs, scripts, state, and persistence live in the world itself - Timmy would not need to keep the whole world in prompt context; the world can hold that memory structurally - this makes Evennia a strong candidate for a sovereign local “mind palace” / workshop / city / dungeon that Timmy can return to over time Suggested next move: - run a narrow NLE/MiniHack spike for the “solved agent benchmark” lane - separately open an Evennia world-design / prototype issue for the “persistent Timmy place” lane

Timmy referenced this issue

2026-03-28 16:22:53 +00:00

[PROTOTYPE] Evennia sovereign Timmy world / mind palace #34

Timmy referenced this issue

2026-03-28 16:22:54 +00:00

[SPIKE] NLE vs MiniHack benchmark lane for Timmy #35

Timmy commented

2026-03-30 15:41:42 +00:00

Uniwizard (#94) context: MUD/roguelike research is now core — Evennia IS the answer. This fed the decision. Can close as resolved.

Timmy closed this issue

2026-03-30 15:41:43 +00:00

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